Thiollier's Hidden Needle
Thiollier’s Hidden Needle is a fist weapon obtained at the end of Thiollier’s Shadow of the Erdtree questline. It builds eternal sleep and uses Sleep Evermore, tying its acquisition to completing his St. Trina arc and the expansion’s final sequence.
Key Takeaways
Thiollier's Hidden Needle is a Shadow of the Erdtree fist weapon built around Sleep rather than raw reach or flexible affinity choices. Its value depends heavily on whether the target can be affected by Sleep and whether the user can stay in close range.
Sleep-focused fist weapon
The weapon's defining feature is its innate Sleep-oriented design, giving a close-range moveset a status role that distinguishes it from ordinary fist weapons.
Unique skill: Sleep Evermore
Sleep Evermore is the weapon's signature skill. It plunges the hidden needle into an enemy to inflict Sleep and supports a follow-up strong attack for a distinctive attack sequence.
Shadow of the Erdtree quest weapon
The weapon is tied to Thiollier's quest in the Shadow of the Erdtree, so it is not a general early-game pickup, standard vendor purchase, or ordinary enemy-drop weapon.
Strong against susceptible targets
Against enemies that can accumulate Sleep, the weapon can create openings that its rapid fist attacks and unique skill can exploit, giving it utility beyond straightforward physical damage.
Limited by range and resistance
Its fist-class reach demands close spacing, while enemies with strong Sleep resistance or immunity reduce the value of its signature mechanic. It is therefore less dependable as a universal answer than a conventional long-reach weapon.
Fixed, specialized progression
Thiollier's Hidden Needle follows a unique reinforcement path rather than functioning as a freely infusible general-purpose fist weapon; its fixed identity preserves the Sleep-focused skill and role.
A close-range alternative to Velvet Sword of St. Trina
Compared with Velvet Sword of St. Trina, another Shadow of the Erdtree Sleep weapon, Thiollier's Hidden Needle trades sword reach and a conventional blade moveset for fist attacks and its specialized unique skill.
Overview
Thiollier's Hidden Needle is a unique dagger in Elden Ring: Shadow of the Erdtree, defined by its connection to Sleep and its fixed weapon skill, Sleep Evermore. It is a late-DLC quest weapon for players who want a specialized close-range status option rather than a broadly customizable dagger.
Thiollier's Hidden Needle occupies a narrow but distinctive role among Elden Ring's daggers. Its short reach and close-range moveset follow the expectations of the dagger class, while its identity comes from Sleep-related effects and the weapon-specific Sleep Evermore skill. That combination makes it more than a cosmetic variant of a standard dagger: the weapon is built around creating opportunities through a status effect and then exploiting the opening with fast attacks.
The weapon is unique rather than a normal dagger that can be freely reshaped around any Ash of War or affinity. Its fixed skill gives it a defined combat purpose, so choosing it is less about finding a neutral base for experimentation and more about committing to its Sleep-oriented behavior. This distinguishes it from infusible daggers that can be adapted to different damage types, stat profiles, or status plans as a character develops.
Its strongest context is the Shadow of the Erdtree progression and the questline associated with Thiollier. The acquisition is tied to that DLC character and its later events, making the Hidden Needle a progression reward rather than an early general-purpose weapon. The overview does not require the quest's exact sequence, but the DLC restriction matters: this is not an option available in the base game's ordinary weapon roster.
Compared with other daggers, Thiollier's Hidden Needle is most relevant to players who value a specialized status setup, a compact weapon skill, or the thematic and mechanical connection to Thiollier and St. Trina. It is less flexible than a customizable dagger and should not be treated as a universal replacement for weapons chosen for reach, scaling, raw damage, or broad Ash of War access. Its appeal is the specific Sleep-centered role it brings to a close-range build.
Statistics
Elden Ring publishes no 0–100 stat bars, so this page lists the verified requirements, scaling and handling figures instead. Taken from the project's verified weapons database, not from generated text.
- CategoryThrusting Swords
- Damage TypePierce
- Primary ScalingDex C
- Weight3
- SkillImpaling Thrust
- Str Req8
- Dex Req20
- How to ObtainReward from Thiollier's questline, Shadow of the Erdtree
- DLCShadow of the Erdtree
Figures verified against Consolidated Game Weapons Database.
Compared to similar thrusting swords
| Weapon | Str Req | Dex Req | Weight | Primary Scaling |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Thiollier's Hidden Needle | 8 | 20 | 3 | Dex C |
| Antspur Rapier | 8 | 18 | 3 | Dex C |
| Rapier | 7 | 15 | 2.5 | Dex C |
| Noble's Estoc | 8 | 15 | 3.5 | Dex C / Int D |
| Main-gauche | 8 | 13 | 2 | Dex D |
Requirements, scaling grades and weight are the game’s own published figures. From Consolidated Game Weapons Database.
How to Obtain
- Shadow of the Erdtree is required; the weapon is unavailable in the base game.
- Reach the Garden of Deep Purple by defeating the Putrescent Knight in Stone Coffin Fissure.
- Advance Thiollier’s quest far enough to access St. Trina, consume her nectar repeatedly, and exhaust the relevant dialogue.
- This is a quest-gated, one-per-playthrough acquisition and should be treated as missable if Thiollier’s quest progression is bypassed or left unresolved; no alternate vendor or recovery route is established.
- 01Travel to the southern part of the Realm of Shadow and complete the route through Stone Coffin Fissure. Defeat the Putrescent Knight, then enter the Garden of Deep Purple and speak with St. Trina and Thiollier there.
- 02Use St. Trina’s nectar repeatedly until Thiollier’s dialogue advances, then exhaust his dialogue after reporting what you learned from St. Trina. This progression causes Thiollier to invade in the Garden of Deep Purple.
- 03Defeat the invading Thiollier in the Garden of Deep Purple. The invasion is the guaranteed acquisition event for Thiollier’s Hidden Needle; it is not purchased from a vendor or obtained as a normal enemy drop.
Availability
Thiollier's Hidden Needle is added by Shadow of the Erdtree and does not appear in the base-game weapon pool.
Requires Shadow of the Erdtree access and sufficient progression in Thiollier's questline to reach its end-state reward.
This is a quest-associated weapon rather than vendor stock, and no purchase price applies. Availability depends on quest progression and the associated endgame sequence; the weapon is not a general early-DLC pickup.
Mechanics and Handling
Close-range needle strikes
Thiollier's Hidden Needle uses the fast, compact attack pattern associated with fist weapons, but its visual and mechanical identity comes from stabbing motions rather than a broad cutting arc. Its effective space is therefore very short: the wielder must stay close enough for repeated hits to connect, and attacks that move the character away from the target can quickly leave the weapon out of range. This makes positioning more important than it is with a straight sword or spear. It is most comfortable against targets that can be pressured at close quarters, rather than enemies whose attacks force prolonged disengagement.
The weapon's rapid attack sequence gives it more opportunities to apply its innate poison buildup than a slower melee weapon, but each individual strike has limited reach. Fist weapons also commit the player to fighting inside an opponent's threat range, so the Hidden Needle rewards attacks made after an opening rather than blind aggression. Jumping, running, and charged attacks remain useful for approaching or punishing openings, but the weapon does not gain a long-range option that solves its spacing limitation.
Poison as the central payoff
Thiollier's Hidden Needle's defining offensive property is its innate poison buildup. Successful attacks can advance the target toward Poison without requiring a separate weapon buff, making the status part of the weapon's normal pressure pattern. The buildup still depends on connecting attacks and can be difficult to realize against enemies that resist Poison or do not give the wielder enough time to remain in melee range.
Poison buildup and the Poison status itself are not the same as the weapon's direct hit damage. The status is a delayed source of pressure, so the weapon is not solely dependent on finishing an enemy before the buildup becomes relevant. Conversely, the Hidden Needle should not be treated as though every target will receive the same benefit: immunity or high resistance reduces the value of its signature effect.
The Poison Flower Blooms Twice
The weapon's unique skill is The Poison Flower Blooms Twice. It plunges the Hidden Needle into a nearby enemy and produces its characteristic poisonous flower attack. The skill is especially important against enemies already afflicted with Poison or Scarlet Rot, where its interaction with an existing status condition gives the weapon a stronger reason to coordinate its skill with prior buildup rather than use it as an unrelated opening attack.
This creates a natural two-stage handling pattern: use the fist moveset to remain close and establish the relevant status, then use The Poison Flower Blooms Twice when the condition is active or when a committed punish window is available. The skill is not a substitute for spacing. Its close-range execution still requires the target to be within reach, and attempting it during an enemy's active attack can leave the player committed to a slow, punishable action.
Handling limits and practical rhythm
The Hidden Needle has no ranged attack, projectile spread, ammunition cycle, or reload behaviour to manage. Its resource question is instead whether the player can safely spend stamina and attack time maintaining contact. Short bursts of light attacks are generally safer than continuing a full sequence after an enemy has recovered, while the weapon skill is best reserved for a confirmed opening or a target already affected by Poison or Scarlet Rot.
The weapon can be paired with other ways of applying Poison or Scarlet Rot, but the important distinction is sequencing rather than a mandatory loadout: status application increases the reason to use its skill, while the fist moveset supplies the close-range hits needed to keep pressure on the target. Against resistant or immune enemies, its handling becomes that of a very short-range fist weapon, and the status-based payoff should not be assumed.
Upgrades and Variants
Strengths, Weaknesses and Best Uses
Strengths
- Its fist-class moveset supports rapid close-range pressure, allowing repeated hits to build its innate poison rather than relying on a single slow attack.
- Mists of Slumber coats the needle in a poisonous mist before a forward thrust; charging the skill increases the poison effect, giving the weapon a distinct burst-status option.
- The weapon is light and has modest attribute demands compared with heavier melee choices, making it easier to include in a status-oriented Dexterity setup without heavily affecting equipment load.
- Its poison theme gives it a clear role against susceptible PvE targets, especially when combined with other poison-related effects that reward repeated status application.
Weaknesses
- Fist reach is short, so the weapon requires close spacing and offers less safety against enemies with long weapons, wide hitboxes, or strong area attacks.
- Poison-resistant or poison-immune enemies remove much of its special value, leaving the weapon dependent on ordinary physical attacks and its limited-range moveset.
- Mists of Slumber requires an opening at close range and consumes FP; charging it further increases commitment, making it easier to interrupt or punish when used carelessly.
- As a unique weapon with a fixed skill and Somber reinforcement path, it does not offer the Ash of War and affinity flexibility available to many standard fist weapons.
Best uses
- Use it as a close-range PvE status weapon when enemies can be poisoned and the player can safely stay on top of them.
- Use Mists of Slumber after an enemy’s recovery or stagger window, when its forward thrust and stronger charged poison are less likely to be interrupted.
- Choose it for a light, mobile poison setup that values repeated fist attacks and status pressure over reach, shield utility, or broad crowd control.
- Treat it as a specialist alternative rather than a universal melee weapon: carry another option for poison-resistant enemies and encounters where short reach is unsafe.
Compared With Similar Weapons
| Weapon | Class and role | Distinctive mechanic | Build fit | Trade-off versus Thiollier's Hidden Needle |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Thiollier's Hidden Needle | Unique skill, Mists of Slumber, releases a poisonous mist around the wielder | Best suited to characters that want close-range poison pressure and can safely remain near enemies | Its fixed weapon skill limits Ash of War and affinity customization | — |
| Poisoned Hand | Innate poison buildup with a skill centered on close-range poison application | A more direct choice for a poison fist setup without relying on Thiollier's unique skill | Lacks Mists of Slumber, so it does not provide the same area-denial behavior | — |
| Clinging Bone | Lifesteal Fist can restore health when its grab connects with eligible targets | Useful when sustain and opportunistic single-target attacks matter more than poison buildup | Does not provide Thiollier's poison specialization or poisonous mist | — |
| Star Fist | Innate blood loss buildup and a heavy-hitting fist moveset | A strong alternative for close-range physical or bleed-oriented builds | Uses a different damage-and-status plan and does not offer Thiollier's poison mist skill | — |
Used In
- ThiollierThiollier's Hidden Needle is Thiollier's signature weapon and is obtained through the conclusion of his questline in Shadow of the Erdtree.
- Thiollier's questlineThe weapon is tied to Thiollier's interactions with St. Trina and the questline's concluding events.
- St. TrinaThe weapon is associated with St. Trina through Thiollier's role as her disciple.
- Garden of Deep PurpleThis location is the central setting for the latter part of Thiollier's quest and his connection to St. Trina.
- Putrescent KnightThe boss is encountered in the Garden of Deep Purple, where Thiollier can assist during the questline; it is not the weapon's direct source.
- Shadow of the ErdtreeThiollier's Hidden Needle is downloadable-content equipment associated with the expansion's St. Trina and Thiollier storyline.
Lore and Design
Thiollier's Hidden Needle is explicitly tied to Thiollier through its item description, which identifies it as a dagger bestowed upon him by his mentor. The description presents it as a slender poison needle whose venom is lethal, connecting the weapon to Thiollier's established identity as a poisoner and to the darker side of his service to St. Trina.
The weapon's story significance comes from its place in Thiollier's quest rather than from a separate historical account of its manufacture. Its concealed-needle design and poison theme reinforce his role as an assassin-like devotee, while the description leaves the mentor's identity and the weapon's precise origin unspecified. Those details should not be expanded into a canon relationship beyond the stated gift from mentor to pupil.
Thiollier's weapon and St. Trina's quest
The Hidden Needle is one of the clearest physical links between Thiollier and his mentor. In the Shadow of the Erdtree story, Thiollier's loyalty to St. Trina places him in conflict with the wider pursuit of Miquella, and the weapon's poison-focused description suits his attempt to act through stealth and toxins rather than conventional martial power. The item establishes Thiollier's connection to the weapon, but does not identify the mentor by name or explain whether the needle was made specifically for him.
Trivia
- The weapon’s name ties it directly to Thiollier, the devotee associated with St. Trina, rather than presenting it as a generic example of St. Trina’s armaments. Its item description identifies it as a dagger fashioned from one of St. Trina’s needles.
- Thiollier’s Hidden Needle is one of the Shadow of the Erdtree weapons whose identity is inseparable from St. Trina’s sleep imagery. Its unique skill, Sleep Evermore, reinforces that connection through both its name and its self-directed ritual animation.